WHY ?????
EuroLambretta 2008
as far as i remember in addition to these 39 paying german lambrettisti guests there were also over 50 persons from the LC Germany working at the venue. so the total was over 90 not only 39.sxCutdown wrote:Serveta-atevres!
The quotes that were given to each nation were based on attendance on previous Euro Jamborees. Germany for instance were represented by 39 persons (if I’m not mistaken) last year, when you arranged it yourself. It was a bit hard to imagine you would be more people going to Sweden then on your own run.
Best Regards,
David
i also know for a fact that we (LC Austria) attended eurolambretta 2007 in neckarsulm with 73 members. the quote for 2008 in sweden for austria is only 25!
ok, this is just 1 jamboree and expecially austria is a long way from sweden. but still we have over 30 people willing to take the long trip to karlskrona this year. i am just glad that i am not the one who has to turn members down because of the quote.
germany, especially the north, is much closer to sweden. from what i heard there were already around 50 registrations for this years event.
I was obviously wrong about the numbers. Sorry!
I totally understand your disappointment. I would feel the same way in your position but “mistake”?
That is your opinion. I would rather call it a case of miscalculation. As I said before: Historically very few Euro Jamborees have had more than 600 guests. We never expected this many people! After all, we are located in a far corner of Europe.
The facts are still that THE VENUE CANNOT HOLD MORE THAN 600 PEOPLE. The management of the Jamboree has stretched this to the very limit of what is possible. In addition, they work very hard to make this a fantastic Jamboree. Unfortunately, we have not learned how to work miracles in Sweden yet.
If we would have known that this many people were interested in coming to Sweden a year or two ago, the choice of venue would have been different. This is very easy to say, looking at the facts but the Euro is due in three months.
Mind you, we have the same problem in our own country. Our quote is filled and there are many people that want to come but cannot.
I do not think you would react the same way if it were a concert or a football game that was sold out.
It is simple for you to be a judge but you have to understand that this is something out of the ordinary.
If it is possible to give you more tickets is not up to me to answer as I am not part of the management for the Euro.
Finally. Sweden is not “Bo-country”. We have a large number of devoted Lambrettisti, witch you will see in Karlskrona.
//David
I totally understand your disappointment. I would feel the same way in your position but “mistake”?
That is your opinion. I would rather call it a case of miscalculation. As I said before: Historically very few Euro Jamborees have had more than 600 guests. We never expected this many people! After all, we are located in a far corner of Europe.
The facts are still that THE VENUE CANNOT HOLD MORE THAN 600 PEOPLE. The management of the Jamboree has stretched this to the very limit of what is possible. In addition, they work very hard to make this a fantastic Jamboree. Unfortunately, we have not learned how to work miracles in Sweden yet.
If we would have known that this many people were interested in coming to Sweden a year or two ago, the choice of venue would have been different. This is very easy to say, looking at the facts but the Euro is due in three months.
Mind you, we have the same problem in our own country. Our quote is filled and there are many people that want to come but cannot.
I do not think you would react the same way if it were a concert or a football game that was sold out.
It is simple for you to be a judge but you have to understand that this is something out of the ordinary.
If it is possible to give you more tickets is not up to me to answer as I am not part of the management for the Euro.
Finally. Sweden is not “Bo-country”. We have a large number of devoted Lambrettisti, witch you will see in Karlskrona.
//David
Well, unfortunately not, as we are not welcome as a Club.sxCutdown wrote:... witch you will see in Karlskrona.
If you are basing the estimates of each country on the attendance of the past years, how comes, that 75 austrian turn into 35 places, 90 german turn into 30 places and 6 swedes turn into 120 places?
Not really surprising, that most germans don't really feel welcome at the EL08 anymore ...
I am sorry to hear that you feel this way.
I cannot really answer you why the quotes look like they do but to me it is not a strange thing that the hosting nation has the highest number of attendants. Shorter distance, less money...
What I know is that this information about our capacity has been presented to the Lambretta comity at the last few Jamborees and I do not think there have been any objections. Sadly, it doesn’t look like this information have been passed on to the club members in Germany.
Please try not to wind your selves up. We do not know how many people that actually will show up before we get the final numbers on April 7. Hopefully there will be room for everyone.
/David
I cannot really answer you why the quotes look like they do but to me it is not a strange thing that the hosting nation has the highest number of attendants. Shorter distance, less money...
What I know is that this information about our capacity has been presented to the Lambretta comity at the last few Jamborees and I do not think there have been any objections. Sadly, it doesn’t look like this information have been passed on to the club members in Germany.
Please try not to wind your selves up. We do not know how many people that actually will show up before we get the final numbers on April 7. Hopefully there will be room for everyone.
/David
Maybe you should rename the whole event into
"Scandinavian Lambretta meeting with some Europeans also allowed to turn up"
It was clear, that there was a limit of 600 places. But there was no talk of a limit of places per country. Bo was always talking of estimates. If we would have known, that he meant "upper limit", we would have done something about this much earlier. I find it ridicolous to plan for roundabout 150 scandinavians, who haven't been seen at a EL ever before, but limit the numbers of places to those, who worked their ass of to welcome you last year.
Lack of communication from your side, as far as I'm concerned.
Sort it out!!
"Scandinavian Lambretta meeting with some Europeans also allowed to turn up"
It was clear, that there was a limit of 600 places. But there was no talk of a limit of places per country. Bo was always talking of estimates. If we would have known, that he meant "upper limit", we would have done something about this much earlier. I find it ridicolous to plan for roundabout 150 scandinavians, who haven't been seen at a EL ever before, but limit the numbers of places to those, who worked their ass of to welcome you last year.
Lack of communication from your side, as far as I'm concerned.
Sort it out!!
Hallo sxCutdown !
I can understand that you want to defeat your position. But as you often admitted you´re not into the facts.
And all the facts are that you ´re doing wrong !
I think that you´re not in the position to critize people`s "attitude ".
Our president tried to sort the problems out early,descret and in a more than kind manner !
The crap"- can´t see-can´t hear- can´t talk- attitude" of your officials is the problem !
It is more than sarcastic, to tell us, we will meet in Karlskrona ! No ! We won´t , as we are not welcome !
I can understand that you want to defeat your position. But as you often admitted you´re not into the facts.
And all the facts are that you ´re doing wrong !
I think that you´re not in the position to critize people`s "attitude ".
Our president tried to sort the problems out early,descret and in a more than kind manner !
The crap"- can´t see-can´t hear- can´t talk- attitude" of your officials is the problem !
It is more than sarcastic, to tell us, we will meet in Karlskrona ! No ! We won´t , as we are not welcome !
Willing but.......
That was not meant as sarcasm. I sincerely hope that this will end in the best way for everyone.
Only time will tell what happens with this.
I’m sure you understand that I can’t comment what our officials do or don’t do. I simply don’t know.
But I don’t find it very dignifying when you take it down to a personal level. Remaking the logo and throw insults around you doesn’t seem like time well spent.
Just to clarify the 120 Swedes. That number is staff included. We didn’t divide this in to who’s working or not like you did last year.
//David
Only time will tell what happens with this.
I’m sure you understand that I can’t comment what our officials do or don’t do. I simply don’t know.
But I don’t find it very dignifying when you take it down to a personal level. Remaking the logo and throw insults around you doesn’t seem like time well spent.
Just to clarify the 120 Swedes. That number is staff included. We didn’t divide this in to who’s working or not like you did last year.
//David
If your attitude are representative for all the Germans, I hope none Germans are allowed to come...
You are jus beeing rude to someone trying to explain the situation for you in a atempt to being friendly. You shoot the rong people and in the same time you are shooting with cannon's.
You are not making any sympati for you cause using this kind of language and showing this type og attitude. Remember this is a open forum, not a offical EL site.
This is strictly a personal opinion from a non Swed...
Stian Kaurel
You are jus beeing rude to someone trying to explain the situation for you in a atempt to being friendly. You shoot the rong people and in the same time you are shooting with cannon's.
You are not making any sympati for you cause using this kind of language and showing this type og attitude. Remember this is a open forum, not a offical EL site.
This is strictly a personal opinion from a non Swed...
Stian Kaurel
Hello,
I think you don´t understand it´s all about neglecting the rules which have been laid out for Eurolambretta Jamborees.
Stian, you say you are not Swedish and guessing by your name I expect you to be Scandinavian, so in that case you cannot come as well, as EL´s are for members of national Lambretta Clubs only. The people attending EL´s year after year are a big family, so telling you are happy if a nation is forbidden there makes me sick and shows me how much insight you have into the international Lammy-Scene.
Please bear in mind it´s not the limitation to 600 people, it´s the dictatoric way of telling who is allowed or not. I am founding member of the Lambretta Club Austria and I am going to EL´s since the very first one in Strasbourg and never in this history a club would have been allowed to make such a situation happen without agreement at the heads meeting before.
In 2000 there was no Eurolambretta and the community met in Paullo at the national italian Rally. I really enjoyed this one, even if it was not up to EL standards - mind you, they also did not call it EL. I can only suggest the swedish LC cancels this event by name only and states it as Rally Scandinavia. I am sure lots of people will attend as well - the ones that have booked surely will turn up - but LCS is not giving a shame to that prestigeous event EL.
To further make more problems that arise around europe clear: the rules say you have to be a Member of a national club so you can go to EL - fine. We have had an increase of numbers in our club since last year of around 30 members. They joined so they can officialy attend THE event of the year. Now we have to tell them thanks a lot for your money boys...but stay at home. What would you do? I would leave this club immediately and this IS what will happen here thx to this move. If this was spoken clearly at the last head meeting (as everybody else would have been doing) we could have told our (new) members about the situation.
Another highly crticised point: in all the years we have only seen Bo and his wife at the EL´s - with exception of Netherlands 2001 and Ireland - Millstreet where a few others have turned up. Other countries´members spend year after year on the road and these brave souls are NOT allowed to attend, where people who never cared about this event are out in high numbers...
This is not to offend anybody who is not responsible for the organisation but to make my point clear, as I got no response from the club. Other countries don´t speak out in public what they think about this as the germans did here or i did - they talk behind the back of the LCS - what do you prefer?
greetings,
Michael
I think you don´t understand it´s all about neglecting the rules which have been laid out for Eurolambretta Jamborees.
Stian, you say you are not Swedish and guessing by your name I expect you to be Scandinavian, so in that case you cannot come as well, as EL´s are for members of national Lambretta Clubs only. The people attending EL´s year after year are a big family, so telling you are happy if a nation is forbidden there makes me sick and shows me how much insight you have into the international Lammy-Scene.
Please bear in mind it´s not the limitation to 600 people, it´s the dictatoric way of telling who is allowed or not. I am founding member of the Lambretta Club Austria and I am going to EL´s since the very first one in Strasbourg and never in this history a club would have been allowed to make such a situation happen without agreement at the heads meeting before.
In 2000 there was no Eurolambretta and the community met in Paullo at the national italian Rally. I really enjoyed this one, even if it was not up to EL standards - mind you, they also did not call it EL. I can only suggest the swedish LC cancels this event by name only and states it as Rally Scandinavia. I am sure lots of people will attend as well - the ones that have booked surely will turn up - but LCS is not giving a shame to that prestigeous event EL.
To further make more problems that arise around europe clear: the rules say you have to be a Member of a national club so you can go to EL - fine. We have had an increase of numbers in our club since last year of around 30 members. They joined so they can officialy attend THE event of the year. Now we have to tell them thanks a lot for your money boys...but stay at home. What would you do? I would leave this club immediately and this IS what will happen here thx to this move. If this was spoken clearly at the last head meeting (as everybody else would have been doing) we could have told our (new) members about the situation.
Another highly crticised point: in all the years we have only seen Bo and his wife at the EL´s - with exception of Netherlands 2001 and Ireland - Millstreet where a few others have turned up. Other countries´members spend year after year on the road and these brave souls are NOT allowed to attend, where people who never cared about this event are out in high numbers...
This is not to offend anybody who is not responsible for the organisation but to make my point clear, as I got no response from the club. Other countries don´t speak out in public what they think about this as the germans did here or i did - they talk behind the back of the LCS - what do you prefer?
greetings,
Michael
My agenda was to point that this kind of attitude and language against non offical to discuss a matter is not ok, regardless of nationality!
To make it even more clear, I didn't say that a nation should be banned from the EL, but people with this kind of attiude are not nice to be with on any rally, still regardless off nationality.
Talking about understanding: This is not a personal e-mail to the EL organisation, it even not a EL forum. It's a open forum organized off the Swedish scooter club. Therfore is this not the right place to get out the harm against the offical EL organisation, even less against name given persons from the organisation.
But difrent opinions put out in a good atmosphere, like yours. Are very welcome and constructive the way I see it. Even if you have this pathetic atempt to questoin my credibillity.
Stick to the cause, and keep the atmosphere friendly like we all are used to in the big scooter family. Then a further discussion maybe lead to something possitive.
To make it even more clear, I didn't say that a nation should be banned from the EL, but people with this kind of attiude are not nice to be with on any rally, still regardless off nationality.
Talking about understanding: This is not a personal e-mail to the EL organisation, it even not a EL forum. It's a open forum organized off the Swedish scooter club. Therfore is this not the right place to get out the harm against the offical EL organisation, even less against name given persons from the organisation.
But difrent opinions put out in a good atmosphere, like yours. Are very welcome and constructive the way I see it. Even if you have this pathetic atempt to questoin my credibillity.
Stick to the cause, and keep the atmosphere friendly like we all are used to in the big scooter family. Then a further discussion maybe lead to something possitive.
Last edited by Stian on Thu 13 Mar 2008, 23:01, edited 1 time in total.
sorry, then I did get it wrong. From the germans that postet here I know "Sukram" and he is a well respected, humorous fella and not a troublemaker. Look, everybody wanted to attend this one, plannings started even before the last Eurolambretta, there were really high thoughts on it and everywhere was talking about who´s going to Sweden, arrangements made etc. - if it would have been somewhere else I doubt that the panic and disappointment would have been so high as it is now.Stian wrote:To make it even more clear, I didn't say that a nation should be banned from the EL, but people with this kind of attiude are not nice to be with on any rally, still regardless off nationality..
OK, here the LC or it´s members are embedded in the Scootering Scene or Runs, I did not know it´s different in Sweden - I thought they might be here as well.Stian wrote:This is not a personal e-mail to the EL organisation, it even not a EL forum. It's a open forum organized off the Swedish scooer club.
There was a lot of constructive ideas and offering of help beforehand (outside this forum), but somehow the conversation between the officials dried up - must mention at this point that this might be because of the tenaciously stand of your boss...Stian wrote:But difrent opinions put out in a good atmosphere, like yours. Are very welcome and constructive the way I see it. Even if you have this pathetic atempt to questoin my credibillity.
I don´t know you and could only judge from what you wrote, from this point - or my understanding of it - I expected you have not been part of Eurolambretta family yet - not Scootering in general or something else.
greetings,
Michael
Mmmmhh - I think we all know, that arguing on the net can be a little bit limitated , especially, if there is a language barrier , or two...Stian wrote:If your attitude are representative for all the Germans, I hope none Germans are allowed to come...
You are jus beeing rude to someone trying to explain the situation for you in a atempt to being friendly. You shoot the rong people and in the same time you are shooting with cannon's.
You are not making any sympati for you cause using this kind of language and showing this type og attitude. Remember this is a open forum, not a offical EL site.
This is strictly a personal opinion from a non Swed...
Stian Kaurel
But if you tell us, we are shooting with canons on sxcutdown ( which is definitly not the case ) your first sentence, I quoted, is more like an A-BOMB, don ´t you think.
sxCutdown represented some ideas , of what might go on , and we represented the facts.
I can´t see one argument in your posts just ressentiments !
You´re right in saying that this is an open forum - so it should be the best place in the world to discuss problems open to everyone !
I am thankful to sxCutdown for posting , as his posts demonstrate that even you in sweden are not informed, by the officials ! And that there are living scooterists in sweden , as the officials do not react !
Meeting one of us in flesh will be a pleasure for you, and everybody else ( perhaps not looking at the bellys ) , and we are working on your chance , to see us !
You´re even right in saying that we are not making sympathy with our attitude !
Definitly not - do you think how we are treated is nice and understandable ???
We are just looking for a plain and simple solution to a problem , that is severe !
The high-rising of emotions is a compliment to the event - and nothing else.
I´m very much looking forward fto meet you and others at the jamboree, and have a laugh about the sillyness, of the march.
I represented facts and arguments in my posts - maybe you should try it this way to ?
One thing that is definitly interesting to me, and I think you´re the right person to ask - are there people of the swedish lc, who regulary take part in this forum ?
Or are we singing at the wrong party ????
Willing but.......
sukram,
If you have a problem with the arrangement of EUL 2008 - please address it to the proper recipients. Since you already have posted both public and private email addresses to such individuals in your thread at GSF, I am sure you have those individuals well figured out.
And, I am a bit curious about your intentions. If your goal is to raise sympathy to your problems, well, you had mine initially. You lost it the minute when you started slandering friends of mine on the GSF forum, calling them derogatory names, putting up signs stating 'Evil Bo' and so on. That type of behaviour does not work for me at all. Since you obviously feel you and your country have been wronged, I am curious to know how you think it will further you cause to anger those you are seeking to influence? Don't you think it would work better by keeping the tone civil and to the point?
Yes, there are people from all Lambretta clubs in Sweden present here. But, since we have decided to have an organizing group that handles the EUL event, they are the ones you should talk to, as stated above.
Best regards,
/Guran - administrator
If you have a problem with the arrangement of EUL 2008 - please address it to the proper recipients. Since you already have posted both public and private email addresses to such individuals in your thread at GSF, I am sure you have those individuals well figured out.
And, I am a bit curious about your intentions. If your goal is to raise sympathy to your problems, well, you had mine initially. You lost it the minute when you started slandering friends of mine on the GSF forum, calling them derogatory names, putting up signs stating 'Evil Bo' and so on. That type of behaviour does not work for me at all. Since you obviously feel you and your country have been wronged, I am curious to know how you think it will further you cause to anger those you are seeking to influence? Don't you think it would work better by keeping the tone civil and to the point?
Yes, there are people from all Lambretta clubs in Sweden present here. But, since we have decided to have an organizing group that handles the EUL event, they are the ones you should talk to, as stated above.
Best regards,
/Guran - administrator
sukram wrote: I am thankful to sxCutdown for posting , as his posts demonstrate that even you in sweden are not informed, by the officials ! And that there are living scooterists in sweden , as the officials do not react !
Meeting one of us in flesh will be a pleasure for you, and everybody else ( perhaps not looking at the bellys ) , and we are working on your chance , to see us !
You´re even right in saying that we are not making sympathy with our attitude !
Definitly not - do you think how we are treated is nice and understandable ???
We are just looking for a plain and simple solution to a problem , that is severe !
The high-rising of emotions is a compliment to the event - and nothing else.
I´m very much looking forward fto meet you and others at the jamboree, and have a laugh about the sillyness, of the march.
I represented facts and arguments in my posts - maybe you should try it this way to ?
One thing that is definitly interesting to me, and I think you´re the right person to ask - are there people of the swedish lc, who regulary take part in this forum ?
Or are we singing at the wrong party ????
==============================
Stahlblech Fahrer vereinigt euch!
==============================
Stahlblech Fahrer vereinigt euch!
==============================
Lambretta-club Belgium is not happy with this situation ...
This is an on-eurolambretta situation ???? Normaly we are one big family ... but now we are fighting and screaming about things ...
Talk talk talk ...
erwin@lambretta.be for LCB
This is an on-eurolambretta situation ???? Normaly we are one big family ... but now we are fighting and screaming about things ...
Talk talk talk ...
erwin@lambretta.be for LCB
We need 6 more tickeks for Belgium !!!!!!!!! Please !!!!!!!!!
erwin@lambretta.be
2012 ; Belgium is ready for the Euro-Lambretta jamboree !!!!!!!!!!!! Vote for us ...
erwin@lambretta.be
2012 ; Belgium is ready for the Euro-Lambretta jamboree !!!!!!!!!!!! Vote for us ...
Last edited by tumkie on Sat 15 Mar 2008, 01:58, edited 1 time in total.
THIS IS AN AWESOME READ!!!!!!!
I have been involved in the Hot Rod & Custom Bike scene both here in Sweden and So Cal for over 30 years and I have NEVER seen anything like this, outrageous from all sides IMHO but who am I to comment, just standing on the outside looking at a bunch of kids in a sandbox making "rules" I'm sooooo glad I did NOT get a Lambretta and join a Lambretta Club, Thank God Piaggio made the Vespa......
Just like I have suspected for a while, attending some Scooter meets and reading Scooter rags, this is a scene where not everyone is allowed, you have to fit a certain mold to parttake. It's funny if you show up at a Hot Rod or Kustom Car gathering with a coool anything you are welcome, no mather if it's a scooter, bicycle, cooler, cooler on wheels, cooler on wheels with motor or what ever the more odd the better, in that scene we are ALL brothers & sisters...
DP says: I'll still be "crashing the party" at Scooter Premiären etc. around here with my not so PC Vespa but I don't give a flying f*ck, I'll be having fun without having to pose....
I have been involved in the Hot Rod & Custom Bike scene both here in Sweden and So Cal for over 30 years and I have NEVER seen anything like this, outrageous from all sides IMHO but who am I to comment, just standing on the outside looking at a bunch of kids in a sandbox making "rules" I'm sooooo glad I did NOT get a Lambretta and join a Lambretta Club, Thank God Piaggio made the Vespa......
Just like I have suspected for a while, attending some Scooter meets and reading Scooter rags, this is a scene where not everyone is allowed, you have to fit a certain mold to parttake. It's funny if you show up at a Hot Rod or Kustom Car gathering with a coool anything you are welcome, no mather if it's a scooter, bicycle, cooler, cooler on wheels, cooler on wheels with motor or what ever the more odd the better, in that scene we are ALL brothers & sisters...
DP says: I'll still be "crashing the party" at Scooter Premiären etc. around here with my not so PC Vespa but I don't give a flying f*ck, I'll be having fun without having to pose....